However, dispersing western mountain lions have left evidence as close as Connecticut, Massachusetts and New York. I have no doubt that there are mountain lion roaming New Hampshire. I think that you probably are. And boy it was big it had to be at least 200 pounds the thing was you and and it just made a little bit of noise and it was gone. You know interactions are pretty unusual. Patrick Tate: It became a very interesting investigation over time because it started becoming. Peter Biello: From New Hampshire Public Radio I'm Peter Biello in for Lark Knoy and this is the exchange. I would say that there's going to be the truth in here somewhere. But I was riding a mountain bike not far from my house. Caller: Well I think Patrick I recognized your name. Some of the reports that I looked into that were actually on file at the local fish and game office were even from people who did not live locally. Yes. So try to take photographs if you see something like this. Its closest living relative is the cheetah. Patrick Tate: So Cougar Mountain Lion katama. John is calling from Bennington. Peter Biello: Sam I wanted to ask you a little bit about that first and then turn to Patrick Tate efficient game. So one thing I'll add we're talking about natural dispensers but talking with the conservation officer in the 1980s they recall going to a residence telling a person you can live here but your mountain lion can't. Pat do they typically just move around a lot. In my New Hampshire career I have written several, and seen at least 20, stories along the lines of "local person thinks they saw a mountain lion but there's no actual evidence aside from. Well within there. I think as Pat was saying you know 35 to 50 pounds on a male be reasonable range whereas mountain lions you're up to 100 110 maybe even 130 pounds on a big male. Sue Morse: The big cat really commands the utmost respect not so much fear but fascination. I don't know if she still is. However if if and when it does happen it takes up a lot of resources looking at that situation and identifying what's going on because when you start out you don't know it's a hoax. Patrick Tate: While a juvenile not a juvenile I guess if you want nodes to the base of the tail for juvenile that wouldn't be small at all. We'll hear more about the mountain lions impact and the role it plays in the ecosystem. They sent he sent his scent those two samples with his to Wyoming an unfortunate Fish and Game Commission there did not get a positive read on it but send it back to Central Michigan University where they did a nuclear micro satellite DNA analysis and found no significant difference between that scat and other scats that were tested from the Rocky Mountain region. If it's just in the middle of a greenfield you can't prove anything. We'll be right back. Have a photo. Caller: Hi. It doesn't happen as much anymore. N.H. Pat humans people leave deer carcasses up in trees. Peter Biello: We at this e-mailed comment from Michael. That's next time on one day. Tate said that while a mountain lion sighting in New Hampshire isn't likely, it's not impossible. Now Bobcat is a completely different species. You don't know what's going on. Sam Evans-Brown: Pretty well I was going to say it is nice to hear about how to identify the facial markings but probably I'd being a to identify the tracks is probably the more useful useful tool that one can have in their tool box. Theyve always said when we have verifiable evidence to say a mountain lion has been, is, or was in the state that wed acknowledge that and give that information out, says Pat Tate, the furbearer biologist with New Hampshire Fish and Game, who insists theres no conspiracy. I don't see the hoaxes anymore at that level. 1957. I tracked cats and all the western states. The great thing about pictures isn't the animal itself it's the background. And because you know things flow downhill and I was pushed to go investigate it more and met with the individual two or three times and there was a bunch of inconsistencies about the photograph. Absolutely there are a lot of folks out there who for some reason need to create something that raises a stir and gets the attention of the media etc.. So now what's going on. Why are there so many false positives? I mean so what what is the practical change that it would bring to New Hampshire if any. So for our scientists to do the lumping and whatnot. There have been several sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. Let us know your story and share your photos! Caller: And the more I thought about it the color of it it was definitely not a bobcat. Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife Biologist thanks very much for being here this morning really appreciate it. Patrick Tate: So I'm not sure what subspecies of cat they're using to differentiate by those markings but once she was describing the White other face in the black. And so a mountain lion is actually quite large right. I mean they're a survivor. The current estimate is 2,000 - 2,700 throughout Arizona. John Holt's ideas were at first dismissed but he refused to be silent. Peter Biello: Ok weird question but do they make good pets. NH Fish and Game Wildlife Biologist Patrick Tate reports that so far, mountain lion reports accompanied byphotographs have been misidentified bobcats or housecats, or pictures of mountain lions taken from the Internet and reported as being recorded in New Hampshire. Reviewing the evidence, the U.S. It all used to be based on measurable physical traits color, skull size, paw size, etc but now its based on whether an animal can be shown to be genetically distinct from others. As far as I could tell there was a positive DNA sequence coming from the scat sample Patrick. Residents Report Mountain Lion Sighting By Elysia Rodriguez Published August 11, 2015 A southern New Hampshire neighborhood believes a mountain lion is roaming the woods near their homes. I saw that had this giant the bobcat had this giant sweeping which is John Bobcat don't have big sweeping tails. I'm Peter Biello in for Laura NOI. Peter Biello: So let's say Rick that it was confirmed that there that there are mountain lines here in New Hampshire. There was a lot of DNA evidence. Patrick Tate: Nice talk to you too. We'll also hear your stories if you have them again. OK. They're very loyal to what the handler which makes them very dangerous to everyone else. Thanks also to Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England and Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in about the natural world and how we use it. If youd like to submit a question (or send a mountain line photo) you can record it as a voice memo on your smart phone and send it tooustidein@nhpr.org, OR call our hotline, 1-844-GO-OTTER (1-844-466-8837) and leave a message. They're just moving around freely. So. Patrick Tate: So one thing I'd say is DNA would definitely identify an animal animal's Mark line or not. So let's let's go to the phones. I was a Bobcat we saw it and I have a picture of it. Are these big cats back?Subscribe to WMUR on YouTube now for more: http://bit.ly/1lOjX9CGet more Manchester news: http://wmur.comLike us: http://facebook.com. For over 38 years the Saddleback Mountain Lions have offered people a chance to give back to their community. He said matter of fact I do. Nicholas Handy can be reached at 924-7172 ext. Have you seen one. Verifiable pictures recorded by the observing person or a trail camera. Peter Biello: Mm hmm. Mountain lion or cat running across. As I tried to get a picture of it so there was it was definitely we looked up all the pictures and it was definitely not a bobcat or anything else being it looked just like a mountain lion. All of that remains unanswered but it is an extremely interesting question. Peter Biello: Hmm. Mountain lions live in the state. Patrick Tate: My line being a large predator a cat watch ambush his prey animal that hasn't been. OK. Rick van de Poll: Rick and I would add that if a mountain lion male takes up residence and successfully finds a female as pets there's gonna be a lot more evidence there will be like deer carcasses up in trees and territorial marking and claw marks and tracks and it you know dispersal is gonna be very tough to see or observed but residential parrots a totally different story. But on the other side of that coin there is this sense that there have been so many sightings locally and you guys Patrick you might recall the name the Wyndham McCracken she kind of turned herself into a local authority off authorities the right word but she was very dedicated to this. NHFG Wildlife Biologist Patrick Tate identifies this cat as a bobcat. I looked at the picture and asked me what do you see in the picture and I wrote back. Sam Evans-Brown: So Tim so this cat's been been referenced a couple of times I think we should talk about it specifically lay the whole story out for folks who haven't heard the story because it's actually I think really indicative of a lot of stuff for talking about. Thank you very much for listening. As recently as 2011 there was one young male mountain lion that cruised all the way from the black hills of South Dakota, up over the Great Lakes, down through New Yorkgetting spotted all. New Hampshire Public Radio | Do cougars live in New England? Don't miss your chance to win three two thousand dollar gas gift cards at any station of your choice not to mention the grand prize twenty five thousand dollars toward a new car. So I think the point that I just want to get across is that there is a very strong sense this here in the and not region that there is that there is some sort of mountain lion population how large it is how extensive it is. It's got a a smudge of black and bobcats and links just don't have that we don't have any other cards. 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. They were able to do all that by genetics. I actually been interviewed a couple of times by reporters and with all due respect for the media you know facts aren't always communicated correctly. And so I just wanted to share my share my experience with you guys and it was pretty awesome to see if you get to see one albeit it was in the brush. From came from out west they tracked it all the way back to the Black Hills in the Dakotas. Thank you. Peter Biello: Well Karl Jarvis a former reporter for The King's son Nile thank you very much for for calling in and sharing your perspective and to his point Patrick T. I mean yes we haven't met the scientific burden of proof here in New Hampshire as far as physical evidence is is concerned but is there room at Fish and Game For A kind of an informal nod to all of the people who have somehow convinced themselves and possibly some others that yeah there may be occasional sightings here. Over a period of a year and a half, this Mountain Lion left DNA evidence in at least four states. Let's talk to Bob in Laconia Bob. So I just brought up the bobcat thing because the location is fascinating to me that that that location we have Bobcats existing but that location we have a mountain lion report because it's a developed area and which brings me back to earlier what I had said it's a bouncing ball. I wasn't employed as biologists at the time of a situation that's been reported but so I started digging into this report and spoke with another wildlife biologist with the agency and said Do you know anything about this. Patrick Tate: Okay. Well I can't tell you what you saw. I've seen him in the woods and that was not a bobcat but I was looking at. Mountain lions when they show up they leave evidence. There wasn't a distinct subspecies the North American mountain lion is all is all one species and then you can find a genetically distinct South American subspecies. The nonbelievers are going to say Show us your evidence and show us prove this to us. Known to exist in the state for over well over a hundred years. So I want to start the program with a comment from someone who is not in the studio with us today. Peter Biello: What about the idea of tourism like us leaving aside the fact that it is not on the Endangered Species Act is it. So yeah as far as wildlife species that put deer and trees know there aren't any others that I know of that put deer in trees just just humans might be responsible for that. And why would they what. Is there a way we can learn more about these dispersing mountain lions that may travel through the Granite State and that I would ask you certainly part about whether or not a he's spending too much time chasing down these kind of false leads or B would rather be doing something else that is more informative to whether or not we actually have or can prove that we have dispersing mountain lions in the state. I would just suggest that in my experience as a reporter covering this covering this issue for a few years at least at what point do we reach a certain critical mass for lack of a better term of accounts where I'm not to suggest that you guys aren't taking this possibility seriously. So if you were to ask me has a mountain lion ever passed through New Hampshire and been spotted by somebody who wasnt able to get hard evidence? Id personally be willing to say "probably, yes.". Kyle I think about Rick Tate wants to jump in here. People have asked me about the genetics of eastern mountain lion. And I think this is a really interesting story for a couple of reasons one is that it proves what Pat was saying which that basically from New York state where its traces was really picked up on a game camera around Lake George all the way down to Connecticut there was numerous. So I don't understand really how how this this idea came to be but it is the main reason why folks believe that fishing game is is covering up the fact that there are mountain lions in the state again with no evidence. Thanks for your call. But you can continue the conversation on Facebook or at our Web site and HP Borg. From: Boomerdog in OK 08-Oct-07 Peter Biello: When did you allegedly see a mountain lion. You've got you've got biologists right who are trying to make their make their way in the world make a career if you are the biologists who confirmed a sighting of mountain lions in the state that would be very good for you like you would be all over the news. Patrick Tate: I would say well when social media first started they picked up the hoaxes became much more prevalent in the last four or five years hoaxes have died down completely. Less than a year later I found a scat on the swamp range and I was working at the time with a fellow at the Michigan wildlife habitat Federation. Its impossible to say, but I think the odds are pretty good that some of these sightings are legit. Want to report a Mountain Lion sighting in New Hampshire? So one thing I'd point out is we've been talking about situations with no evidence a number of them come in with photographs and yet what they fit what they description of the animal they saw and by the way I got a picture of what I saw. He says when youve got a mountain lion in town, its kinda obvious. About two years ago I was at the Laconia airport on the way home from the airport and there's a big lake on one side called Lily Pond. 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. So there is definitely no downward pressure by anyone. But along the lines of the conspiracy theories as you mentioned earlier there there was a bit of a sense on behalf of what I'll call the promo online community who felt that fishing gain maybe not even so much in a spoken policy but maybe sort of an unspoken policy did not want to find themselves in a situation where they had to spend money to create a management plan and so forth. And I was probably about a half a mile from downtown all village on the right. Caller: I do. A lot of times. 1957. Numerous scat and fur specimens have been turned in as part of mountain lion report investigations; DNA identification has shown these submitted samples to be from domestic dog, coyote, bobcat andraccoon. N.H.'s Fish and Game department says there's no proof. Its actually fairly reasonable to believe that mountain lions do, at least, pass through occasionally. So when we talk about the threshold of evidence required to say for sure you have seen a mountain lion it is rather high. Give us a call if you have a question or comments or story about perhaps seeing a mountain lion here in New Hampshire. Rick van de Poll: Yes. Yes and you want to share what you learned. Peter Biello: Let's talk to Ron and where Ron thanks very much for calling. Fish and Wildlife Service decided all of the cougars, pumas, and mountain lions in the country are actually the same species, and that species hasnt had a breeding population anywhere near the Northeast for at least 70 years. Sam Evans-Brown: I just want to say the bang and word you just heard I think to me exemplifies why it's really hard to come up with with positive you know 100 percent certain evidence that you've that what you've got is a mountain lions. Peter Biello: Well Mike thanks very much for sharing your story. Mike thanks for your call. Sam Evans-Brown has been working for New Hampshire Public Radio since 2010, when he began as a freelancer. Patrick Tate: I've had hunters hang deer carcasses forbidding wildlife entries. We had six copies printed out each. It's not an emerging endangered species no work no there are there are populations in specific states so the Florida panther is is an endangered species that sub population is in fact listed under the Endangered Species Act. And a lot of people around the county airport have seen a lot of pilots coming in said they saw huge. I can't tell you what you saw but it sounds like a mountain lion. 44-H Links. Early in the morning. The exchange is a production of New Hampshire Public Radio. Some argue that it's a leap of faith. The panther, Fells concolor, is a beast of many names, most frequently referred to in New Hampshire history as catamount, but sometimes known locally as "Indian Devil" or "Carcajou", under which . So before we get to the the the the stories of sightings we're getting a lot of calls. And I can recall its information but I can't confirm or verify anything. Is this kind of a typical story. But if you do if you think you're looking at a wild Puma their tail is very thick and especially in the winter is very thick and ponderous looking. So here we have you know a very qualified biologist who who found a print took a plaster cast found a scat send it to a university. Deer Bear Moose Grey Wolf Coyote Foxes Fisher Mountain Lion NH Wildlife History. Theres a project called the Cougar Network that tracks verified sightings, and they are all around us: Massachusetts, Connecticut, Maine, New York and New Brunswick have all had verified sightings over the past 20 years or so. Enable JavaScript by changing your browser options, and then try again. You need you need either a really good photograph or you need you know fresh scat that can be sent to a lab out West that can they can be identified there. We actually have the largest subspecies of bobcat in the northern part of our state which they can get up to 40 and over 40 pounds which looks like an 80 pound the animal to visually and quite large. Just. If so that's for us as an agency. Want to put this to to Patrick Tate who may have heard some some info or info from listeners like you about these these these cats. Caller: Yeah. Caller: I got home to my wife that a gene that you should have seen the cat. It is also known as cougar, panther, mountain lion, and puma, though catamount is the preferred regional vernacular. Peter Biello: There have been several alleged sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. We rely on readers like you to support the local, national, and international coverage on this website. Peter Biello: Rick I believe you did mention that that they do leave carcasses up in the tree from time to time but are there any other species known in New Hampshire to do this on a regular basis. Think you've seen a mountain lion. Updated: 9:53 AM EST Dec 6, 2016. And so far we have not had any positive mark lion scats or any DNA. Sam Evans-Brown: And second the evidence required is is you know pretty pretty tough to gather. And I have to use that word allegedly because there is so much dispute about what people see and what they actually see. We discuss what residents may have been seeing and what breeding mountain lion pairs would mean for our ecosystem. Patrick Tate: Martin Like what about Panther Panther saying animals same animal and like a bit of trivia Guinness Book of World Records says the animal with the most names is in English alone they're supposedly 40 names for Mount lion. Russ, from Sandwich (and Bedford) asks: In Sandwich New Hampshire, everybody has a story about seeing a mountain lion. However, as far as I can tell theres no Deep State Conspiracy to cover up a breeding population of cougars in the Granite State. I mean it wasn't your idea. So. Thanks for taking my call. Sam Evans Brown. That's why we always go back to the physical evidence to support what they're reporting. But Absence of Evidence Is Not Evidence of Absence, Right? Peter Biello: Thank you for sharing that. And so maybe before I go to you recommend I ask you Patrick Tate is the standard too high. And what was really remarkable about the whole thing was I was maybe a half mile down on all buildings. The states never denied mountain lions are here, and theyve never admitted mountain lions are here. David Erler says some of them probably have. Almost all species disperse greater distances than females. It's good to talk to you. So that's the specimen that you find going long distances. This is where things start breaking down when you so I get pictures with this great description and one of my favorite stories is a great description what the witness and then so I called the witness and wanted information from them and the person says What are you talking about. So Michael follows with the question. BUT THAT SAID, Id love to be proven wrong. There's always been physical evidence to prove those situations like hair or fur scat hair prints pictures of the animal print scat hair. So give us a call now.
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