Worldandhistory (talk) 00:10, 25 September 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], You did not answer my first point, no where in the article does it say she belonged to a noble family, the article is now free from any claims of her being scion, the article simply focuses on her origins. The motion that all these history books are dramatized or contain anachronism can't be true. This has to stop, no factual person will buy your theory. [i][11], Shaykh Qutb al-Din al-Nahrawali, a Meccan religious figure, who visited Istanbul in late 1557, noted in his memoirs that Hurrem Sultan was of Ruthenian origin. Leslie P. Peirce has written that it may have been either Anastasia, or Aleksandra Lisowska. Interviews are constantly being used in Wikipedia for every notable person, why neglect this one? People have done a great job depicting fake ottoman culture. [19] According to Necdet Sakaolu, a Turkish historian, these accusations were not truthful. Hurrem later managed to become the Haseki Sultan or "favorite concubine" of the Ottoman imperial harem. All these authors could've have used this phrase simply because they didn't know what the real father's name was, like I said "this name was and is very common for any royal family as well as a common family in any Islamic dynasty." What matters is, as Nurbanu wasn't a legal wife, she was still a kadin; she is mentioned as a sultana in wikipedia because she became Valide Sultan. She frequently accompanied him as a political adviser. 190.218.117.86 (talk) 22:51, 3 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], The thing is, unlike yours, I'm not fabricating a theory! His wife Kay announced via Facebook: I am sorry to make a It seems you consider a Talk page as a comment war section, well it's not. Even as a consort, her power was comparable with the most powerful woman of the Imperial Harem, who by tradition was the sultan's mother or valide sultan. [21], Around 1533/1534 (the exact date is unknown),[11] Suleiman married Hurrem in a magnificent formal ceremony. No need to change the title. Hatun is not a Title at all. [14] She is the sultan's consort with the most portraits in her name in the Ottoman Empire, though the portraits are imaginary depictions by painters. And you said that her being called Hatun or NOT being called Sultana is a Fact. [17], Suleiman's mother, Hafsa Sultan, partially suppressed the rivalry between the two women. In the end, they fought and Mahidevran beat Hrrem or Hrrem let herself be beaten. .mw-parser-output .brokenref{display:none}Cite error: There are tags on this page, but the references will not show without a {{reflist|group=note}} template (see the help page). WebExplore Mahidevrans 121 photos on Flickr! And Mahidevran was the proud mother of Sehzade Mustafa,who was the most potential and talented heir apparent to the throne.And Mahidevran was not like the other Consorts of Suleiman,like Gulfem or Fulane.After the death of the sons of other consorts by diseases She was the mother of only son of Suleiman the magnificent and according to the ottoman tradition sje was Suleiman's Bas kadin,which was the most powerful position for a Sultan's consort before creation and after abolition of the title Haseki Sultan.As Leslie P. Pierce said that during Suleiman's reign the title for Queen mother, Princesses and Sultan's chief consort changed to Sultan from Hatun.And other ordinary consorts of Sultan held the title Hatun.And Mahidevran Sultan was favorite and chief consort of Suleiman before hurrem,and she was the mother of crown prince of the ottoman empire. Muradiye complex. The book comprises 27 paintings and 27 poems After months of hard work Grantlea Downs School celebrated the opening of its sensory footpath last Friday. She learns about the pregnancy of Nigar Kalfa through Gulsah and she informs Hatice Sultan of his husband's unfaithfulness. [25], After the death of Suleiman's mother, Hafsa Sultan, in 1534, Hurrem became the most trusted news source of Suleiman. Give me one name of the mother of potential heir to the throne (like mustafa) who wasn't called Sultana after 1500. It was a clear sign for Mahidevran and Mustafa; he might be the oldest son, but he was not the favourite one. [27] In defiance of this age-old custom, Hurrem stayed behind in the harem, even after her sons went to govern the empire's remote provinces. Subscribe to our free weekly newsletter and stay up to date on History of Royal Women's articles! In the 20112014 TV series Muhteem Yzyl, Hurrem Sultan is portrayed by Turkish-German actress Meryem Uzerli from seasons one to three. I began this website in 2013 because I wanted to share these women's amazing stories. This tradition was called Sancak Beylii. However, if you feel otherwise, you could always simply revert the changes or add the "unreliable source" template with reasoning. She wrote, "My dearest Sultan! My only request, please don't emphasize Leslie's work on entire Ottoman system, let there be other possible sources as well, specially for a matter like this, when there is little if no information on "consorts' position in harem before 16th century" is present in her book. And it's not "my" idea of history, I'm respecting the facts; if anyone's fabricating their own fantasy is you with your admitted speculations and possibilities.. Don't even start to talk about facts when the come from a theatre play. 190.218.117.86 (talk) 02:43, 4 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], "Denying a deceased person of its possible title" you just put yourself in evidence here. Hurrem's birth name is unknown. My most sincere friend, my confidant, my very existence, my Sultan, my one and only love. New York: Palgrave Macmillan. [12], European ambassadors of that period called her la Rossa, la Rosa, and Roxelana, meaning "the Russian woman"[13] or "the Ruthenian one" for her alleged Ruthenian origins. I even request the deletion of dubious page of her alleged father but you are not admitting that you may be wrong here. Again, it's just my opinion I still oppose the change of title. sultanas. But "sultan" is not a nickname: "sultan" is a royal manner of addressing that is deeply ingrained in Ottoman culture and reflects the times of the events that unfolded(such as the change in their use as generations passed). She wasn't able to smile as she once did, and she didn't show much generosity towards her She did not spend her last years in poverty, as her stepson, In the Ottoman imperial family tradition, a sultan's consort was to remain in the harem only until her son came of age (around 16 or 17), after which he would be sent away from the capital to govern a faraway province, and his mother would follow him. Who were her parents? Hurrem was allowed to give birth to more than one son which was a stark violation of the old imperial harem principle, "one concubine mother one son," which was designed to prevent both the mother's influence over the sultan and the feuds of the blood brothers for the throne. Please don't get personal here it's just a talk page. According to him, Mahidevran Sultan was the daughter of Prince Idar Temryuk.Was it really so? Osmanl tarihi, Volume 2. Bas kadin literally means "Head Woman", and if this "head woman" status didn't exist at that time then why she has been referred as "Ba kadin" or Birinci kadin by numerous books? WebDeaths in June 2017 passed! [17] She did not spend her last years in poverty, as her stepson, Selim II, the new sultan after 1566, put her on a lavish salary. Categories: 1500 births. We are not going to talk about the conspiracy theory you was trying to drag me into "Hurrem planning the execution of Ibrahim" it is so off base and irrelevant. The name Roxalane derives from Roksolanes, which was the generic term used by the Ottomans to describe girls from Podolia and Galicia who were taken in slave raids. And I have an interesting video for the newer.Today I want to tell you about Mahidevran Sultan, who she really is.Mahidevran Sultan is the mother of Shehzade Mustafa. Although he never visited Istanbul, he either imagined her appearance or had a sketch of her. [16]:131, Her joyful spirit and playful temperament earned her a new name, Hurrem, from Persian Khorram, "the cheerful one". Basic Books. Hence it is possible, though not likely, that Mahidevran also carried the title Sultan. Hurrem remained in the sultan's court for the rest of her life, enjoying a close and relationship with her husband, and having six children with him, including the future sultan, Selim II. She built numerous mosques, madrasahs, hammams, and resting places for pilgrims travelling to the Islamic holy city of Makkah. Now Mahidevran became a chief consort as a mother of the only prince in the Empire. Meanwhile, another woman grabbed the eye of Suleiman; she gave birth to her first son (Mehmet) that same year and endangered Mahidevrans position. This new woman was the famous Hrrem Sultan. Thank you 113.203.177.1 (talk) 18:32, 28 March 2016 (UTC) 113.203.158.58 (talk) 00:23, 8 February 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], I request a change of title, to revert it back to its original name (which was only "Mahidevran") and maintain its protected status. If "Haseki Sultan" was created solely for Hurrem when they legally married, breaking a 200 hundred tradition of not marrying, why should anyone assume that other concubines of the sultan would start using "sultan" if they didn't marry him? Please, if there's someone who can review this and make a decision quickly. [16], Hurrem's unprecedented rise from harem slave to Suleiman's legal wife and Ottoman Empress attracted jealousy and disfavor not only from her rivals in the harem, but also from the general populace. 125.209.82.212 (talk) 22:11, 1 April 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]. Though Hurrem must have been called Sultana first, the Ottoman dynamics simply couldn't allow such discrepancy within the Harem that once the title "Sultan" is started being used for favorite wives, that they don't called the first favorite with the same title. Therefore they can't be used. Born in Ruthenia (then an eastern region of the Kingdom of Poland, now Rohatyn, Ukraine) to a Ruthenian Orthodox priest, Hurrem was captured by Crimean Tatars during a slave raid and eventually taken to Istanbul, the Ottoman capital. [23], Hurrem became the first consort to receive the title Haseki Sultan. In 1561, three years after Hurrem's death, the French author Gabriel Bounin wrote a tragedy titled La Soltane. The Venetian painter Titian is reputed to have painted Hurrem Sultan in 1550. I asked you to provide a source calling M's father Abdullah a Slave. Best. Mustafa had a great sympathy towards his half-brothers, especially to Beyazt and Cihangir (the youngest ones). Mahidevran Sultan once hit hurrem untill her face turned to a bloody puddle, something that didn't please the sultan. Hurrem also unlike Mahidevran On this Wikipedia the language links are at the top of the page across from the article title. 16th-century women. [5] She was born in the town of Rohatyn 68km (42mi) southeast of Lww (Lviv), a major city of the Ruthenian Voivodeship of the Crown of the Kingdom of Poland,[6] in what is now Ukraine. It is explicitly explained that the title "Haseki Sultan" was created when Hrrem married Suleyman. Everyone is emphasizing on only one source for the subjected woman that is of Leslie P. Peirce's and simply ignoring those sources/references/theories they don't like. The army, the governors and thepeople loved Mustafa dearly. Since that title was created for Hrrem, this does not affect Mahidevran, who was important nonetheless as the mother of the oldest prince, but not a Haseki. There are reasons to believe that these two letters were more than just diplomatic gestures, and that Suleiman's references to brotherly or fatherly feelings were not a mere tribute to political expediency. Burial. WebDeath 3 Feb 1581 (aged 8081) Bursa, Bursa, Turkey. Hello my dear friends!I'm glad to see you on my channel. Despite Suleimans disfavour, he was thefavourite of the army and governors. Peirce, Leslie (2017). "Sultan" had many meanings throughout history and did reflect the status and the way of interacting of the times; if we want to accurately depict history then, at last, she's a "hatun". Minna Rozen: A History of the Jewish Community in Istanbul, The Formative Years, 1453 1566 (2002). One of the alledged theories points to her mother being addressed in that manner. I oppose changing the title from Sultan to Hatun. In rare cases, an autopsy needs to be performed by a pathologist. [32] After three other grand viziers in eight years, Suleiman selected Hurrem's son-in-law, Damat Rstem Pasha, husband of Mihrimah, to become the grand vizier. () LUCKYEYE GROUP ALSO MAKES NO REPRESENTATIONS OR WARRANTIES AS TO WHETHER THE INFORMATION ACCESSIBLE VIA THIS WEB SITE, OR ANY WEB SITE WITH WHICH IT IS LINKED, IS ACCURATE, COMPLETE, OR CURRENT. Mustafa became verypopular in the region under the guidance of his mother. And only after the release of the series Magnificent Century, where she was one of the main characters, various information about this sultana began to appear on the Internet.As Mahidevran's contemporaries wrote, in life she was a black-haired beauty with brown eyes. [49] Artists Titian, Melchior Lorich, and Sebald Beham were all influential in creating a visual representation of Roxelana. Your email address will not be published. We cannot overlook them. Here are some sources (regardless of their nature) they contradicts the motion that she wasn't called Sultan. - Worldandhistory (talk) 16:33, 28 September 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], @Phso2: Two of your sources are at stake (Colin Iber's and Peirce's), please read page 136 of Colin's book, this gives definition of Slave in general term, so calling any member of Sultan's family a slave does not necessarily makes them a slave by origin, and P simply used a text from Alberi, P herself only called M a concubine. According to a source he was executed that very year on charges of planning to dethrone his father; his guilt for the treason of which he was accused remains neither proven nor disproven. Mustafa was later accused of causing unrest. Moreover, he was famous for his generosity and fair decisions. Whatever the case, the result was bitter for Mahidevran; Suleiman started to neglect her as punishment. Please consider all sources available. These princesses, were destined to be gifted (in other words sold) by their ruling fathers to their higher or equivalent ranking rulers, kings and grand Vazirs (ministers). The letters also suggest Hurrem's strong desire to establish personal contact with the king. She is part of the love triangle with Lloyd and Poppy. For the series' last season, she is portrayed by Turkish actress Vahide Perin. In official account, not all consorts who was referred as SULTANA was legally married to Sultan nor was the Valide Sultan. This is your own point of view that just because she was called cariye she was of non-notable family. Mahidevran gave birth to her son with Sultan Suleiman, Mustafa, at only 15 years old. Contrary to popular belief, this did not immediately make her the Ba Kadn or head consort as Suleiman had two other living sons at the time. Adding something as controversial as ""she was a slave"" as can be seen here would only draw unnecessary attention of the fans and/or may or may not be alleged descendants, as your content was more like a statement rather than a neutral point of view. Circassian or Albanian? In 2019, mention of the Russian origin of Hurrem Sultan was removed from the visitor panel near her tomb at the Sleymaniye Mosque in Istanbul at the request of the Ukrainian Embassy in Turkey.[48]. "The Speech of Ibrahim at the Coronation of Maximilian II", Thomas Conley. At that time Mustafa was the third son of Suleiman, without significant importance. Like every woman in the harem, there is little information about her early life; she was from either Circassia or Montenegro. Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.218.117.86 (talk) 20:21, 3 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], It is of much importance that the article you cite mentions Nurbanu Sultan as being a "bas kadin" when talking about the fact that, despite "kadin" and "haseki sultan" carried different meanings, they had equivalent importance in the harem. Chteau de Blois A favourite royal residence, The Daughters of William the Silent Emilia Antwerpiana of Nassau. WebAuthor has 325 answers and 6.9M answer views Oct 9. Instead, he attended it. She is known to be a legal wife before Hurrem Sultan, but not so popular since Hurrem Sultan was the first "slave" to become a legal wife, hence, only Hurrem's being a legal wife is so popular. Mahidevran was his most trustable advisor as well as chief of his harem. While every other converted slave might be called Abdullah, we can't simply consider every person with the name of Abdullah to be a slave, for example, you say "Abdullah as a generic name for slave converts" then again I don't suppose that ehzade Abdullah was a slave, this contradicts your claim that evry man with this name was a slave. As Mulkhurub Bahar Idarovna blossomed into an eye dazzling beauty, her father saw this as an opportunity to strengthen the political relationship between the Caucasus and Ottoman Dynasty. Among her first foundations were a mosque, two Quranic schools (madrassa), a fountain, and a women's hospital near the women's slave market (Avret Pazary) in Istanbul (Haseki Sultan Complex). Does the translation really say she was from Euboea?? Jobair khondoker (talk) 17:41, 2 March 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], "But Leslie P. Peirce also very clearly said that in 16th and 17th century(during Suleiman's reign) tge title hatun for a valide(Queen mother),Sultan's(emperor) chief consort and princesses was replaced with Sultan.As Mahidevran was the first chief consort and Ba Kadn (chief consort) according to ottoman tradition so it's very easy to find out that she held the title Sultan from the very beginning." WebAccording to some reports he died of natural causes, while others say that Mahidevran, the mother of Sehzade Mustafa gave the order to kill Sehzade Mehmet because he could take He was accused of collaborating with the Shah and was executed in the battle camp. On the other hand, Hrrem Sultan gave birth to another son named Selim in 1524, and the rivalry between two women became more intense than ever. 190.218.117.86 (talk) 01:47, 29 February 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], I beg to differ, in many books (arts, literature whatever you may call) she has been known as Sultana. The Ottoman archives and privy purse records prove that she was Mahidevran Hatun, regardless that fact that she was the mother of the crown prince or had been once a favorite of Suleiman. This tells how important and high ranking Birinci Kadins were (see any ottoman dictionary you like to see what Birinci Kadin means and what was their positions in early history of Ottoman.) Why does she have sultan next to her name? Also note the rank Kadin or Birinci Kadin ended with Mahidevran, this rank changed to Haseki Sultan (logically this is what happened). [22] It was only possible for Hurrem to marry Suleiman after the death of Hafsa Sultan. Since the empire lacked, until the reign of Ahmed I (16031617), any formal means of nominating a successor, successions usually involved the death of competing princes in order to avert civil unrest and rebellions. 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Decision quickly Turkish-German actress Meryem Uzerli from seasons one to three across the! Sultana was legally married to Sultan nor was the daughter of Prince Idar Temryuk.Was really!
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