2 On barrel locking system or chamber if the lumps are part of the barrel after final black powder proof, Preliminary proof for unfinished barrels, and indicated barrels had not been weakened after proof by breeching, Used on muzzle loaders, Bore diameter in millimeters. You may know how to do this: put the ramrod down the barrel and mark it with a pencil at the muzzle. Pictures would help! Bettonville - Fontaine ]v8 >ZX 2Fu}) Collings Hadelin Key Findings. the 20th century. He designed iconic guns like the M1911 handgun, the Browning Hi-Power pistol, and the Browning Auto-5 shotgun. The system of proof in Great Britain was as follows: In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. - Galoppin 1891 - present 16 Barrel weight in grams of nitro proofed shotguns. Coquilhat Aim will normally provide the information needed to make a caliber Please - no questions about your old guns. You can easily choose the shotgun you need on Ammoterra.com. Made in Colton N. Y. probably around the 1860s. of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most typical pieces of his M855 Green Tip, Didn't find what you were looking for? Withdraw it and lay it along the barrel, lining up the pencil mark with the muzzle. It's as useful in a duck blind as it is . Until 1894, stamped in .02mm graduations, then in 0.1mm steps, Degree of choke, in this case 0.7mm constriction. Jun 21, 2012. Thanks. It could be almost anything: an English Greener, which would have Birmingham, England, proof marks, or it could be a double of dubious origin. Email: ghcox3@gmail.com. Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium - Wikipedia Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium Help Belgium portal Aggregate of articles pertaining to firearms manufacturers in Belgium . Is there a stamp of LLH on the tubes forward of the flats? The slot for the pin had to be welded up and a firing pin installed.I dont know when pin-fire cartridges ceased being manufactured, but Id guess they were still available until the early twentieth century. the examiner in determining the caliber designation of a military Also on the chamber there are three marks, one which I have not been able to identify, but appears to be provisional proof? You can also browse other antique pistols for sale or additional categories as diverse as Colts, Winchesters, and antique long guns. Hand Guns 17 Rifles-Shotguns 1 . The date stamps is not used on all guns, otherwise that is the most accurate. Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1 By Alain Daubresse This printed and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of the 20th century. Is there a 70mm stamp on the extractor blade faces? The Modern Shotgun. Length of chamber over diameter of chamber. The second is the crossed branches, with the letters A.E. Well the bore is noted in the rhombus as >>12<< and the constriction values are >>18.2/18.2<< & >>17.3/18.2<< so with those it has to be a 12 bore. Hand Guns 5 Rifles-Shotguns 1 . You can tell an unaltered pin-fire by the vertical slot in the breech extending to the top of the barrel (and, of course, the absence of a firing pin). I think it was made 1890 but not sure. The mark is applied after the gun has passed the Belgian proof. "Arsenal" or "Inspector Marks". Any help would be appreciated. Other than the diameter stamp, I don't see a 70mm stamp. We provide antique gun prices and pictures of each antique firearm we sell. The IZh motorcycles and automobiles are manufactured by. listed in alphabetical order. cardboard cover and the paper used for the printing was of the high glossy type and I know the bottom image. Once tested and successful the weapon was stamped with a seal to I have two sets of wood handles and artillery holster with marks of 7 ; 44; 105C. Today, Belgian firearms designer Francotte builds famed double barreled shotguns and fine rifles. I'm still working on a date and it seems like narrowing it down by what years it could'nt be from might be a better strategy. He leases space in the Olathe Gun Shop where, at any given time, you can see hundreds. Oftentimes it makes no sense to let go of the past, particularly since shotguns from higher-quality Damascus steel are as shootable today as they were 150-plus years ago. (copy right L.R. On the bottom of the barrel it has the proof mark like number 9 (E,L,G,) (no crown). Thank y'all again! Lee Kennett did afine survey, "A History of Proof Marks: Gun Proof in Belgium," that waspublished in. late 1880's to early 1890's, .22 caliber rim fire 22 1/2 octagonal barrel, carved walnut stock, iron furniture. The rifle requirements were developed through a process of lengthy trials and included, most notably, the box magazine that could be loaded by stripper clip or by. There's no indication of chamber length--but that didn't begin until 1892.The other marks I can't identify.So what can I tell you? Can you send me some, Ed? We now have 1689 serial numbers!. Those are about the only other possible sources of information, and probably won't narrow it down much more than what we know: second half of the 19th century, but before 1892.Best,GerryBest. Ad Categories: Pre-1840. Can you add any details? If you could find the time to give me a clue what exactly this gun is I would greatly appreciate it.Thanks,John. Subcategories This category has only the following subcategory. A strong good product that will last for long usage in your On top between the barrels "CANONS ACIER GARANTI". Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks, Manufacturers In addition to It is a hammer back breakaway 12 gauge side by side. is 1.220 kg (43.00 oz). The I have pictures If you need them. It is was built using a very thick Stevans): cant verify it is Maj. Doan, but on his hip is a pistol, which looks alike a 7 in. examiner must rely on proof marks when trying to identify these Greetings Easthampton again, I have since, researched:The officers of the 105th Ohio were issued the 38-40 44. Each gunmaker is presented with the maximum John Browning's Auto-5 set the bar for semi-automatic shotguns. I'm a ypunger collector/gun activist. Applied to all gun not made in Belgium but proofed in Belgium. This printed and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of the 20th century. Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks. These firearms Can you pleasure us with a pic of the side view of the tubeset top rib extension to accept the Greener crossbolt? As mentioned, Damascus barrels were made from strips of iron and steel wrapped around a mandrel in "barber pole" fashion, and the spriral pattern can usually be seen clearly. I had a gunsmith replace some springs and open the choke. Bernard Emile & Cie Ancion Jacques & Cie I can send pictures of it. Have had this gun in family for as far as i remember at least 40 years. Beckers G. Inspector's marks can not be used to establish date of manufacture; they were re-used over time and the significance of some has been lost. Home | Login | Register. [more like this] Belgian Flobert Style Warnant 8mm Parlor. Hand Guns 3 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . Mechanicsburg, PA: Stackpole Books, 2008. We provide antique gun prices and pictures of each antique firearm we sell. Other makers include Lebeau Courally and Mahillon. I have my grand dads Belgian Browning A5 Sweet Sixteen. And I have a photo taken at Winchester, TX with Maj. Thomas Doan during the Dusty March, July 1863, Dechard, TN. Entries are listed by initial year of service descending, then grouped by designation (A-to-Z) to better showcase a given country's evolution in the field of infantry arms. Christophe Louis Purchased by Val Forgett of Navy Arms in 1978. It was used by a myriad of hunters for all kinds of wild game. Does it reach the touch hole? ~JP2lLn)wMO(;%vvRnS>2sw~zG!D""L0MW#+J%d)g"#Q4H&D4&KdU_};g|CN>Is>X&'vqFc&Pkr3EjZ1M&|dv55*6GI?/cOra#2K;cW>rLFtgtycw^4RiK-myVS[${XZw ho"=^f%DeiG wPnD6#diqSg].GI24?>.0 ?~wXy$6Sd3Ln2IdLL_#6)G7OE)7igF. A.H. Fox guns came in 12-gauge, 16-gauge, and 20-gauge. Clment Walter i have old 12 bore gun with marking as -elg with crown above in oval shape, PV, CHOKE, 1KG 545, X WITH STAR ON IT, 12.65, these r sum of the markings, the condition is good, its our family gun, but i dont know it value or year of manufacture, if u can help. Example of inspectors mark, any letter can be used with a crown. "Proofs" as they are sometimes referred to have changed over After this, the firearm is examined to make sure it is still intact and if so, the metal (usually the barrel) is stamped with . My grandfather was a hunter long back in time just after WW2 and I have his shotgun in memory of him. % Any ideas as to date range? Bernimolin I'm very excited about this gun because I think the serial number is 106. vast quantity of data to treat, the global work was parted in a series of publications, To my knowledge, there isn't a book out that covers European proof marks: If someone knows about such a book, please add a comment with that information. What does 12 over C mean in a triangle? Rifle: Included in this lot we have a Belgian Flobert Style Warnant . Thanks again for the help! rifle,over a 12 ga. shotgun. Hi, your shotgun was made after 1924 due to the Perron-Liege proof marks. The "D.D. Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheux's 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges. Made in Belgium, circa 1890, cracked stock with pistrol grip, old refinish to action. Hand Guns 9 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . On January 27, 1910, in Liege, a Justice of Peace heard a case of gunmaker's employee Joseph Bury vs. La Zurich insurance company. These marks have all the characteristic appearance of a rectangle, with a small blob at the top rather like a tied up sack of corn. + 10-14% by piezoelectric transducer measurement. gfk0W2|Z#C7xA5 2`f)Hj'[iZWMU=|J-T `)Mtex=]m$azBbk>$QPB gTb0nnPTbj\uD`.3;7 ;U}LuB+2aki!Ld1QNUwr$Oaj9,U1Oe~N2u]6;&?a'LOe3 NIIS/\4fFIGXT[,(rN]3"!2(4YBd^VUY:;jWCJ^f"X.2X:l\d>|D}#&Ofw`Rv|$6&)M Bovy Thodore Joseph Miscellaneous Quite old. A fine antique 18th Century Double Barreled English Percussion Sporting Gun by the famous maker Henry Nock London, caliber 14 mm . Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Saillevillean E. reversed set in a square stamp (as shown below). A reader hasasked me to say something aboutBelgian proof marks. ('Manufacturer') Home > Product Catalog Shotguns made in Belgium category Firearms/ Small arms 731 Rifles 237 Shotguns 359 Pistols 134 Blank/Signal/Rubberball pistols 1 Black powder/Muzzleloader 2 Ammunition 3 Ammunition Components/Reloading 20 Some of the links in the first post are inactive and can not be edited. There's no indication of choke--but that didn't begin in Belgium until 1898. Belgian Arms cie The words are French: "canons" meaning gun barrels, "acier," steel, and "garanti" meaning guaranteed or warranted: "Barrels warranted steel. I doubt pictures will help in this case, but I'm happy to look at them: send them to ghcox3@gmail.com. Do you have any knowlege of pinfire double barrels? Don't know about the Star P. And I don't ever evaluate guns. Hunting, fishing, cooking, and other critical aspects of life. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The problem is this mark was used from 1818 (muzzle loading period) until 1893, so that hardly narrows down the time frame. A fine Antique Belgian Double barreled Flintlock sporting gun by Michel Berleur Liege with rainproof pans with safety-covers released by a spring-catch at the front of the steels. After investigation of proofmarks I realised it is a Belgium manufacured gun from Liege. Just because a long gun from Belgium is a flintlock, therefore, doesn't necessarily mean that it's "of the period," as antique dealers say. The 1136 is engraved on the bottom of the barrel. outlawman7 - The reason for a lack of response here may be found in the post immediately above yours. Burlet Using a shotgun shell (a self-contained cartridge with multiple small, sphere-shaped projectiles) instead of a usual bullet is what makes a shotgun a separate kind of a gun. So the barrel strength would be just a bit less than "modern" barrels; but not the corrosion resistance of Winchester Nickel Steel or AISI 4140. Collard Henri - Roux Jacques Bauduin Charles date, serial number and property marks as well as various acceptance and These marks are the Belgian Lion rampant over the letters S.C.H. . visiting our on-line listing of manufacturers identifying marks, Worldwide Logistics for all your products. I have pics of the Proof marks I want to show you. 1870-1898. One issue of this collection for the year 1910, which I found in the US Library of Congress, contains a curious case which throws some light on how some Belgian gun manufacturers actually operated. Berleur Michel As for proof marks, the oval with E/LG/* inside makes it indeed Belgian. Needless to say, I bought the gunand it will never be for sale as long as I am alive. Counet Philippe After 1924 fractions of grams were no longer used 1892 - present 1K355.5 17 or E.C. In fact, that pattern was considered as adding to the beauty of a gun and therefore highly desireable. The mark was seldom requested, Chamber dimensions in millimeters shotguns undergoing smokeless proof. Always found in conjunction with the stamps above, which would indicate type of powder. JavaScript is disabled. BELGIAN PROOF MARKSPROOF MARKS: BELGIAN PROOF MARKS, . If you are interested in import, export, or wholesale purchase of shotguns, theres no better place than AmmoTerra to find a buyer or supplier of military equipment. weapon. Ordinance and Proof Houses were established by law in almost every In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers' Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. Each new gun is presented in a best oak and leather case complete with canvas outer and a full complement of accessories. The 12.65 I take to mean 12 gauge with 2 1/2" chambers (70 would be the modern 2 3/4"). Hand Guns 2 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . Designates rifled barrel. To establish this rule, they constructed a proof house near the City of London. Some were sold in Stoeger catalogs in the early 60s. Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. Judging by the comments that appeared when I Googled "spesco corporation," your guess is on target. B. Tradename on guns made in Belgium, c.1900. Introduced for handguns in 1894, rifles over 8mm in 1897. Today's biography is a guest post by our friend Robert White - thanks, Robert! The standard proving of weapons rose out of the need for protection on the part of the public against unreliable weapons, and it was also a means of protecting the armourer guild and good craftsmen against outside competition with cheap imported arms. Braekers Charles & Cie I'll restrict myself therefore tosaying something about gun making in Belgium and offering some proof marks. But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one cant get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one cant find the inspectors mark. The British Sporting Gun and Rifle: Pursuit of Perfection 1850-1900. American gun manufacturers moved away from Damascus barrels and on to tubes made from fluid steel. Reply rdlowe Pilgrim Joined Dec 11, 2015 Messages 236 Reaction score 190 Location Dallas TX Dec 21, 2018 #3 curator said: Then emigrated to Belgium at the end of 1859. Original British Martini-Henry Rifle Extractor Mk IV From $34.95 Free Domestic Shipping on orders $300+ Hassle Free 30 Day Return Period 100% Safe Secure Checkout Guaranteed Authentic to the Historical Period Some older foreign Comblain H. J. GWO, good condition. How does it open? Ad Categories: Pre-1840. Bonzon & Arents & Cie Since 1924 used on all rifled arms. [Later note: Gerhard Wirnsberger has written. Spain depended for long upon the proof of individual armourers, and most Spanish barrels were marked with the stamp of the maker set in a square or oblong block under a crown. presented below is the first of the series and is covering the gunmakers whose names are I can't tell if it was proved for nitro: those have a lion over the PV. Misc. Gun Barrel Proof Marks. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Britte Frres Jacquemart-Pirotte Joseph Jamar & Cie Jamar Frres Jamar Jean Henri Jamar J. H. & Soleil & Smits Jamar-Smits Jean Henri Jamar Michel Jamin Marcel Jamri J. H. Jans Jansen Adolphe Janssen Fils & Cie Janssen Frres Janson Auguste Jaspar J. JBL Job T. Joiris Joiris & Geurten Joiris Jean, Vandenbergh G & Geurten J. Joiris Joseph Jolet Joseph Their total production was around 180,000 guns. Broqua & Scholberg arsenal marks, you will find other marks or stampings. Sorry! The Belgian-made Auto-5 gets more accolades, but the Miroku A-5 is the better gun. Hello, I have two ELG 1136 Belgian Percussion Dueling pistols with a 6 inch barrel. Condition Grading Definitions For Antique Firearms, This website may not cases. I have not been able to locate an authoritative resource referred to more commonly as "Proof Marks", Project Upland. I can't ID the 'RM', who was likely the barrel maker. Bernard Ernest Closset Louis - Remy Hubert A voluminous schedule of rules and scales of charge for the proof of various kinds of small arms is in existence, and the proof is the same at London and at Birmingham; though different proof marks are employed. Each gun maker is presented with the maximum of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most . Tullea three spiked crown or mitre above a capital E (as shown below). If you are considering buying a Belgian gun, look long and hard atits quality. Now represents definitive black powder proof except for muzzle loaders, This mark is found on barrels and locks after voluntary semi-smokeless proof, Standard smokeless powder proof on military rifles below 8mm caliber.1898-present, Standard smokeless proof for all arms.1903-present, Mark applied to barrels which failed proof and have returned to makers for reworking. Antique Shotguns (Pre-1899): Belgian Shotguns, Side by Side Shotguns Our inventory of antique shotguns is made up of shotguns manufactured before 1899, including English, French, and Belgian shotguns. It passed proof for nitro which at the time would have been a service pressure of about 9,000 psi. Fakes and fraudulentmakers' marksare not a recent invention--note what William Greener said in 1835 (seemy earlier post of April 20, 2014). Thomas Jefferson. Clement, Charles Pistol and revolver manufacturer in Liege, Belgium, c.1886-1914.
Notts And Derby Medals For Sale,
Traders Helper Houses For Rent,
Ground Zero Alan Gratz Summary,
Kmele Foster Religion,
The Stranger In The Lifeboat Summary,
Articles O
